Comments for The Birmingham Pals http://www.birminghampals.co.uk 14th, 15th and 16th Regiment, Royal Warwickshire Fri, 03 Feb 2012 10:40:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 Comment on Soldiers by Pauline http://www.birminghampals.co.uk/soldiers/comment-page-1/#comment-4742 Pauline Fri, 03 Feb 2012 10:40:14 +0000 http://67.225.225.60/~birmingh/soldiers/#comment-4742 Dear Phil, Without knowing when your great uncled was wounded I can't really give you any idea as to where he was at the time. I can't find him in the lists I have of men in the Pals regiments, but that doesn't definitively mean he wasn't there. He could have been posted to a Pals Regiment later on. My lists only cover the original volunteers to the Pals. As he was a sergeant he could have been put into one of the regular regiments if they had already lost men. It might be worth contacting the museum http://www.warwickfusiliers.co.uk/ The following is also a good site. Called the Long Long Trail it has a large quantity of WWI material. The Warwickshire page is at http://www.1914-1918.net/warwicks.htm . You can follow the different regiments through as it tells you which brigade etc they were in, then you can follow that to find the battles they were involved in. The best source of material on the Birmingham Pals is 'Birmingham Pals: History of the 14th, 15th and 16th (Service) Battalions of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment (The pals series) by Terry Carter' I have looked at his medal index card which indicates that he wasn't in active service til after 1915 as he wasn't awarded the Star. He was also not awarded the Silver War Badge so he must either have been in hospital until after the war ended or well enough to go back to his regiment later on. I'm sorry I can't be of more help. If you have any more information which might give me a clue as to where he was wounded please get back to me. Best wishes, Pauline Dear Phil,
Without knowing when your great uncled was wounded I can’t really give you any idea as to where he was at the time. I can’t find him in the lists I have of men in the Pals regiments, but that doesn’t definitively mean he wasn’t there. He could have been posted to a Pals Regiment later on. My lists only cover the original volunteers to the Pals. As he was a sergeant he could have been put into one of the regular regiments if they had already lost men. It might be worth contacting the museum http://www.warwickfusiliers.co.uk/
The following is also a good site. Called the Long Long Trail it has a large quantity of WWI material. The Warwickshire page is at http://www.1914-1918.net/warwicks.htm . You can follow the different regiments through as it tells you which brigade etc they were in, then you can follow that to find the battles they were involved in.
The best source of material on the Birmingham Pals is ‘Birmingham Pals: History of the 14th, 15th and 16th (Service) Battalions of the Royal Warwickshire Regiment (The pals series) by Terry Carter’
I have looked at his medal index card which indicates that he wasn’t in active service til after 1915 as he wasn’t awarded the Star. He was also not awarded the Silver War Badge so he must either have been in hospital until after the war ended or well enough to go back to his regiment later on.
I’m sorry I can’t be of more help. If you have any more information which might give me a clue as to where he was wounded please get back to me.
Best wishes,
Pauline

]]> Comment on Soldiers by Glenn Gilbertson http://www.birminghampals.co.uk/soldiers/comment-page-1/#comment-4735 Glenn Gilbertson Tue, 31 Jan 2012 02:56:36 +0000 http://67.225.225.60/~birmingh/soldiers/#comment-4735 Thanks, Pauline - it looks like a trip to Kew! Kind regards, Glenn Thanks, Pauline – it looks like a trip to Kew!
Kind regards, Glenn

]]> Comment on Soldiers by Pauline http://www.birminghampals.co.uk/soldiers/comment-page-1/#comment-4732 Pauline Fri, 27 Jan 2012 22:16:29 +0000 http://67.225.225.60/~birmingh/soldiers/#comment-4732 Dear Glenn, On 25th October the Battalion was preparing for a big push on 26th October. I have a couple of books which both state the same. I wonder if frank Sloper died of wounds on 25 October. As far as I know the War diaries are in the National Archives in Kew. Sometimes war diaries do mention the names of soldiers who are wounded or killed, so it would be worth checking the archives. As for an account of what was happening on the 25th - the 14th battalion were also involved in this same battle so you may get additional context from that. Sorry I can't help more, Pauline Dear Glenn,
On 25th October the Battalion was preparing for a big push on 26th October. I have a couple of books which both state the same. I wonder if frank Sloper died of wounds on 25 October. As far as I know the War diaries are in the National Archives in Kew. Sometimes war diaries do mention the names of soldiers who are wounded or killed, so it would be worth checking the archives. As for an account of what was happening on the 25th – the 14th battalion were also involved in this same battle so you may get additional context from that.
Sorry I can’t help more,
Pauline

]]> Comment on Soldiers by Pauline http://www.birminghampals.co.uk/soldiers/comment-page-1/#comment-4731 Pauline Fri, 27 Jan 2012 22:03:56 +0000 http://67.225.225.60/~birmingh/soldiers/#comment-4731 Dear Derrick, I have tried without success to find out something about the time Pte Philp died, but unfortunately my books have very little information from that particular time. .Sorry I can't help, best wishes, Pauline Dear Derrick,
I have tried without success to find out something about the time Pte Philp died, but unfortunately my books have very little information from that particular time.
.Sorry I can’t help,
best wishes,
Pauline

]]> Comment on Soldiers by Pauline http://www.birminghampals.co.uk/soldiers/comment-page-1/#comment-4730 Pauline Fri, 27 Jan 2012 21:47:34 +0000 http://67.225.225.60/~birmingh/soldiers/#comment-4730 Dear Geoff, I am afraid I don't know of anyone who would have been with your great uncle at the time. I don't know if you have seen the following, which gives an idea of what the dressing station was like: Main dressing station Dives Copse is a collection of marquees joined end to end in rows. Letters A-F(R) G-L(L) + 1 mortuary. Accommodation 1,700 stretcher cases expanding to 2,500 using bell and operating tents and two church army huts. Each block has an antechamber, operating theatre and collection chamber I copied it from the following page: http://freepages.military.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hoddy/somme.htm Have you seen Terry Carter's book on the Birmingham Pals? There are photos of individuals in the 3 Pals regiments through the book which you might find interesting. You might be able to get a copy through your library. Otherwise, I have a copy of that book & if you send me your postal address to pauline@birminghampals.co.uk I will send you a copy of the pages around the day Harry was wounded. Best wishes, Pauline Dear Geoff,
I am afraid I don’t know of anyone who would have been with your great uncle at the time. I don’t know if you have seen the following, which gives an idea of what the dressing station was like:
Main dressing station Dives Copse is a collection of marquees joined end to end in rows. Letters A-F(R) G-L(L) + 1 mortuary. Accommodation 1,700 stretcher cases expanding to 2,500 using bell and operating tents and two church army huts. Each block has an antechamber, operating theatre and collection chamber
I copied it from the following page: http://freepages.military.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hoddy/somme.htm
Have you seen Terry Carter’s book on the Birmingham Pals? There are photos of individuals in the 3 Pals regiments through the book which you might find interesting. You might be able to get a copy through your library. Otherwise, I have a copy of that book & if you send me your postal address to pauline@birminghampals.co.uk I will send you a copy of the pages around the day Harry was wounded.
Best wishes,
Pauline

]]> Comment on Soldiers by Pauline http://www.birminghampals.co.uk/soldiers/comment-page-1/#comment-4729 Pauline Fri, 27 Jan 2012 17:51:46 +0000 http://67.225.225.60/~birmingh/soldiers/#comment-4729 Dear Julie, Since you didn't know your great uncle was in the machine gun corps I have wondered how you knew that this was your great uncle out of the many Albert Rhodes who served in WWI. Having worked on the assumption that this is your great uncle I can tell you that he did die during the war. If you look at http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=505165 this is the record of his death on the Commonwealth War Graves site. If you click the certificate button it gives you a certificate which you can print out free. If you click on the name of the cemetery it brings up details & also the buttons at the botton enable you to see the plan of the cemetery & where the grave is. You will see from the 1st page that it says his father actually lived in Aston Street, Glasgow. If this is not an error on their part it does beg the question as to why he joined the Royal Warwicks, but his father could have moved later, or indeed it may be that Albert came down from Scotland. As to the Machine Corps, men volunteered or were volunteered for this corps. Groups of Machine gunners were then attached to the different regiments. Some sites which may help you to know more about the machine gun corps. http://www.machineguncorps.co.uk/ & also http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Machine_Gun_Corps_War_Diary_Transcript_Links_(WW1) There are other things come up in a google search. I have also looked on Ancestry for Albert on the censuses, by entering in his dob +/- 5yrs & also his father's name & there is only one match for them, & this is in Birmingham. I couldn't find them in 1911 though so maybe my this time they had all moved to Scotland? Sorry I can't provide a photo but hope all this will take you much further with your research. Best wishes, Pauline Albert wasn't in one of the Pals Regiments so must have joined one of the regular Warwickshire regiments. Their museum may be of help http://www.warwickfusiliers.co.uk/ Dear Julie,
Since you didn’t know your great uncle was in the machine gun corps I have wondered how you knew that this was your great uncle out of the many Albert Rhodes who served in WWI. Having worked on the assumption that this is your great uncle I can tell you that he did die during the war. If you look at http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=505165 this is the record of his death on the Commonwealth War Graves site. If you click the certificate button it gives you a certificate which you can print out free. If you click on the name of the cemetery it brings up details & also the buttons at the botton enable you to see the plan of the cemetery & where the grave is.

You will see from the 1st page that it says his father actually lived in Aston Street, Glasgow. If this is not an error on their part it does beg the question as to why he joined the Royal Warwicks, but his father could have moved later, or indeed it may be that Albert came down from Scotland. As to the Machine Corps, men volunteered or were volunteered for this corps. Groups of Machine gunners were then attached to the different regiments. Some sites which may help you to know more about the machine gun corps. http://www.machineguncorps.co.uk/ & also http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Machine_Gun_Corps_War_Diary_Transcript_Links_(WW1) There are other things come up in a google search.

I have also looked on Ancestry for Albert on the censuses, by entering in his dob +/- 5yrs & also his father’s name & there is only one match for them, & this is in Birmingham. I couldn’t find them in 1911 though so maybe my this time they had all moved to Scotland?

Sorry I can’t provide a photo but hope all this will take you much further with your research.
Best wishes,
Pauline

Albert wasn’t in one of the Pals Regiments so must have joined one of the regular Warwickshire regiments. Their museum may be of help http://www.warwickfusiliers.co.uk/

]]> Comment on Soldiers by Pauline http://www.birminghampals.co.uk/soldiers/comment-page-1/#comment-4726 Pauline Fri, 27 Jan 2012 11:35:55 +0000 http://67.225.225.60/~birmingh/soldiers/#comment-4726 Dear Karen, I have looked John up on the findmypast.co.uk website in the British Army Service Records 1760-1915 section. There are 2 John Wildmans listed there who were born in Birmingham. The 2nd one in the list joined the Royal Warwickshires but it doesn't say which regiment. He joins in 1892 & leaves a few years later but is recalled to the regiment to fight in the Boer War. It says his wife is Mary Ann nee Robinson. You must have his wife's name so will know if that is the right man. If it is you can find the record on the site I've listed above. If you haven't a subscription to find my past you can just buy a few credits. There are only 4 pages on this record so it won't be expensive. Alternatively some public libraries allow members to use these sites free. Hope this is your grandfather, I would be really interested to know, Best wishes, Pauline Dear Karen,
I have looked John up on the findmypast.co.uk website in the British Army Service Records 1760-1915 section. There are 2 John Wildmans listed there who were born in Birmingham. The 2nd one in the list joined the Royal Warwickshires but it doesn’t say which regiment. He joins in 1892 & leaves a few years later but is recalled to the regiment to fight in the Boer War. It says his wife is Mary Ann nee Robinson. You must have his wife’s name so will know if that is the right man. If it is you can find the record on the site I’ve listed above. If you haven’t a subscription to find my past you can just buy a few credits. There are only 4 pages on this record so it won’t be expensive. Alternatively some public libraries allow members to use these sites free.
Hope this is your grandfather, I would be really interested to know,
Best wishes,
Pauline

]]> Comment on Soldiers by Pauline http://www.birminghampals.co.uk/soldiers/comment-page-1/#comment-4725 Pauline Fri, 27 Jan 2012 11:12:57 +0000 http://67.225.225.60/~birmingh/soldiers/#comment-4725 Dear Paul, I have looked up your great grandfather in my records but I don't have him listed as being in one of the Pals Regiments. However, I note from his medal index card that he wasn't given the 1914-15 star so he can't have joined until late 1915 at the earliest. He will have been too young or too old probably to join originally. The fact that he has such a high regimental number also indicates this. By the time he joined there had obviously been casualties so he may have been sent to a pals Battalion, or he could have joined one of the regular RWR Battalions, I'm afraid I have no way of telling. It may be worth you contacting the Museum http://www.warwickfusiliers.co.uk/ I have also looked on Ancestry to see if Henry's military record survives but I couldn't find him there unfortunately. If Henry was invalided from Ypres he was involved in some of the hardest fighting of the war. The Warwicks were involved in much action in Ypres & the Somme. There are many books about this & any would give you a very good idea of what your great grandfather was involved in as overall everyone was involved in the same sort of experiences in that field of battle. The fact that he was later in the Royal Defence Corps means that either he was still recovering from a wound, or possibly the effects of gas, but was well enough to do other work. The RDC was "initially formed by converting the (Home Service) Garrison battalions of line infantry regiments. Garrison battalions were composed of soldiers either too old or medically unfit for active front-line service; the Home Service status indicated they were unable to be transferred overseas. Eighteen battalions were converted in this way". I don't know whether men were put into the RDC or whether they volunteered. I'm sorry I can't be of more help, but hope this helps to fill in some of the gaps. best wishes, Pauline The role of the regiment was to provide troops for security and guard duties inside the United Kingdom; guarding important locations such as ports or bridges. It also provided independent companies for guarding prisoner-of-war camps. The regiment was never intended to be employed on overseas service. Dear Paul,
I have looked up your great grandfather in my records but I don’t have him listed as being in one of the Pals Regiments. However, I note from his medal index card that he wasn’t given the 1914-15 star so he can’t have joined until late 1915 at the earliest. He will have been too young or too old probably to join originally. The fact that he has such a high regimental number also indicates this. By the time he joined there had obviously been casualties so he may have been sent to a pals Battalion, or he could have joined one of the regular RWR Battalions, I’m afraid I have no way of telling. It may be worth you contacting the Museum http://www.warwickfusiliers.co.uk/
I have also looked on Ancestry to see if Henry’s military record survives but I couldn’t find him there unfortunately.
If Henry was invalided from Ypres he was involved in some of the hardest fighting of the war. The Warwicks were involved in much action in Ypres & the Somme. There are many books about this & any would give you a very good idea of what your great grandfather was involved in as overall everyone was involved in the same sort of experiences in that field of battle.
The fact that he was later in the Royal Defence Corps means that either he was still recovering from a wound, or possibly the effects of gas, but was well enough to do other work. The RDC was “initially formed by converting the (Home Service) Garrison battalions of line infantry regiments. Garrison battalions were composed of soldiers either too old or medically unfit for active front-line service; the Home Service status indicated they were unable to be transferred overseas. Eighteen battalions were converted in this way”. I don’t know whether men were put into the RDC or whether they volunteered.
I’m sorry I can’t be of more help, but hope this helps to fill in some of the gaps.
best wishes,
Pauline

The role of the regiment was to provide troops for security and guard duties inside the United Kingdom; guarding important locations such as ports or bridges. It also provided independent companies for guarding prisoner-of-war camps. The regiment was never intended to be employed on overseas service.

]]> Comment on Soldiers by Glenn Gilbertson http://www.birminghampals.co.uk/soldiers/comment-page-1/#comment-4278 Glenn Gilbertson Wed, 11 Jan 2012 23:33:25 +0000 http://67.225.225.60/~birmingh/soldiers/#comment-4278 Hi, On behalf of Alresford Historical and Literary Society I am researching the stories of our local war dead. One such is: SLOPER, FRANK ERNEST (“Ernest”), Private 32850, 15th Battalion, Royal Warwickshire Regiment. Died 25.10.1917, aged 23. Com. Tyne Cot Memorial, Belgium, Panel 23 to 28 & 163A (cwgc) Killed in action. Dearly loved son of Mr. & Mrs. Frank Sloper, late of Beauworth. (Hampshire Chronicle 08.12.1917) Born Milton Hill, Berks. Enlisted Alresford, Hampshire. Formerly 18534, Hussars. Killed in Action. (UK, Soldiers Who Died in the Great War 1914-1919) Personal Army Record not available. 1901 Census shows birthplace Woodham, Hampshire, living in St. Mary Bourne, Whitchurch, Hampshire, with parents Frank and Mary Ann Sloper – father a carter on a farm. 1911 census shows birthplace as East Woodhay, Hants. Like his father and younger brother Edward William he was working as a carter on a farm, living together with parents and three sisters in Beauworth, Hampshire. Can anyone tell me any more? Has the War Diary survived ? Can anybody tell me what the battalion was doing on the 25th October, the day before the attack on Passchendaele? Thanks in advance for any help. Glenn Gilbertson Hi,
On behalf of Alresford Historical and Literary Society I am researching the stories of our local war dead. One such is:
SLOPER, FRANK ERNEST (“Ernest”), Private 32850, 15th Battalion, Royal Warwickshire Regiment. Died 25.10.1917, aged 23. Com. Tyne Cot Memorial, Belgium, Panel 23 to 28 & 163A (cwgc)
Killed in action. Dearly loved son of Mr. & Mrs. Frank Sloper, late of Beauworth. (Hampshire Chronicle 08.12.1917)
Born Milton Hill, Berks. Enlisted Alresford, Hampshire. Formerly 18534, Hussars. Killed in Action. (UK, Soldiers Who Died in the Great War 1914-1919)
Personal Army Record not available.
1901 Census shows birthplace Woodham, Hampshire, living in St. Mary Bourne, Whitchurch, Hampshire, with parents Frank and Mary Ann Sloper – father a carter on a farm.
1911 census shows birthplace as East Woodhay, Hants. Like his father and younger brother Edward William he was working as a carter on a farm, living together with parents and three sisters in Beauworth, Hampshire.

Can anyone tell me any more? Has the War Diary survived ? Can anybody tell me what the battalion was doing on the
25th October, the day before the attack on Passchendaele?
Thanks in advance for any help.
Glenn Gilbertson

]]> Comment on The Battalions by Mark Morgan http://www.birminghampals.co.uk/the-battalions/comment-page-1/#comment-4079 Mark Morgan Sat, 07 Jan 2012 11:52:56 +0000 http://67.225.225.60/~birmingh/?page_id=20#comment-4079 My Grandfather (William Morgan) served in the 15/R Warwicks from 23 Sept 1917,when the 15th Bn were disbanded he transfered to the 17th Bn. It's bit of a strange story as my Grandad joined up in 1908 & served with the 1st Kings Dragoon Guards,a cavalry regiment,from then until 1917. What I think may have happened is,I know he was wounded during the war & he wasn't in the R Warwicks at the time,so must have been with the KDG.In 1917 the KDG were ordered back to the North West Frontier (Afganistan,how ironic!),maybe he was still recooperating & rather than send him after the KDG he was just allocated to another regiment,it does strike me as strange that he was put in an infantry regiment(albeit on cavalry pay) instead of another cavalry unit.His records such as survive don't give any clues.He was born in Dorset and as far as I know had no connection at all with Birmingham. My Grandfather (William Morgan) served in the 15/R Warwicks from 23 Sept 1917,when the 15th Bn were disbanded he transfered to the 17th Bn.
It’s bit of a strange story as my Grandad joined up in 1908 & served with the 1st Kings Dragoon Guards,a cavalry regiment,from then until 1917. What I think may have happened is,I know he was wounded during the war & he wasn’t in the R Warwicks at the time,so must have been with the KDG.In 1917 the KDG were ordered back to the North West Frontier (Afganistan,how ironic!),maybe he was still recooperating & rather than send him after the KDG he was just allocated to another regiment,it does strike me as strange that he was put in an infantry regiment(albeit on cavalry pay) instead of another cavalry unit.His records such as survive don’t give any clues.He was born in Dorset and as far as I know had no connection at all with Birmingham.

]]>